This is so inaccurate it kills me.
More drive-by declarations made by someone without the true knowledge to explain their rationale. Tumblr seems to be full of these people that think they know so much, until you ask them how they came to that conclusion. Then you get this reaction…
There’s nothing wrong with calling out what I say on tumblr, but don’t be mislead by textbook economics. Sure on paper it seems that institutions like fast food would have to cut jobs to compensate for the higher hourly wages they must pay their workers, but real world economics don’t display this trend at all.
1. There was a study conducted by Princeton economists David Card and Alan Krueger that examined changes in employment and food prices at fast food establishments in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, with NJ raising their workers hourly wages and PA not doing so. They concluded that raising the minimum wage not only had no effect on businesses firing employees, but it actually increased employment without having any effects on prices at all. People weren’t crossing the border to get their fast food fix. Literally google “minimum wage fast food study” and it’s the first link.
2. Australia has a minimum wage that is $16.88 an hour ($15.07 USD), over double the federal minimum wage in the US. Australia, a fellow capitalist economy, also hasn’t suffered a recession in the past 20 years. That information just takes a quick Google search.
On a side note, raising the minimum wage isn’t just to give teens more money. The average age of a minimum wage worker is 35, and raising the minimum wage would put more money in the pockets of people all across America. When people earn more money they generally value their job a lot more. Productivity would increase as a result of a minimum wage increase, and this would help compensate any loss a business may have when increasing their wages. That being said, I believe there are many more benefits to increasing the minimum wage than people give it credit for. It’s a useful economic tool that shouldn’t be taken with a grain of salt.
Oh, so you of course tout the Card and Krueger Princeton study, something that has been discredited by many economists (here’s another great read)…but you know, Krueger is an Obama pick, so liberals tend to throw his name around. Their study, btw, was done on a major fast food chain rather than small ma and pop restaurants where you see a lot more impact from these regulations. I’ve already made a similar post how major corporations are less impacted by minimum wage increases than small business.
Also, if I had a nickel for every time someone referenced Australia’s minimum wage when advocating a higher minimum wage in the US…well, I’d have a shitload of nickels. Out of curiousity, what progressive website did you get this information, btw? Well, first off, the Australian minimum wage isn’t as simple as you think. Secondly, the cost of living in Australia is far higher than in the US. Third, Australia has a far smaller economy ($15.6 trillion to $1.5 trillion), population (314 million to 22.5 million), and much stricter immigration policy than the United States. You’re really comparing grapefruits with grapes. It’s a bad habit by economic illiterates.
On a side note, raising the minimum wage isn’t just to give teens more money. The average age of a minimum wage worker is 35
Well, that’s just completely wrong. Please share your sources with me so I can consequently piss all over it.
When people earn more money they generally value their job a lot more.
For doing the same menial job? You think people will enjoy their job of cleaning toilets, cleaning grease traps, and changing shitty diapers more if they’re getting paid more? Sorry to burst your bubble, but not likely. Minimum wage jobs are meant for the young and inexperienced employee, who hold most of the jobs. They don’t want to stay in that job for long, because they should be looking forward to moving up in the world. In other words, minimum wage jobs are meant to be temporary. You’ll figure this all out when you have more world experience yourself.
I do applaud you for actually trying to explain your rationale, despite it all being incorrect and typical, instead of just making a statement of “this is wrong” like this dipshit and moving on. You’ve earned a little bit of my respect for trying.
Alright, alright. First of all, I don’t think it’s fair or a good time to call someone a dipshit because they have different ideological beliefs, even if they don’t defend themselves. Excuse us for thinking a different way than you. Just because it’s different than you, and we disagree, it doesn’t mean that WE ARE WRONG. Clearly, there’s a rationale that makes sense to some and just calling it wrong? I don’t think that’s the way to go about it.
Secondly, The Bureau of Labor Statistics says that there are 32% of people who are over the age of 25 years old, so people who aren’t all that young and inexperienced are making at or below minimum wage. (source). But, just because you generalize that people who make minimum wage aren’t planning on staying there long, doesn’t mean it’s true. People live off minimum wage, simply because sometimes life doesn’t work out the way it was planned. Things happen, like honestly, there are some things you can’t just bring sources and stats and studies to prove.
Next of all, minimum wage is not a living wage. Honestly, though.
The poverty thresholds:
1 person under 65: $12,119
1 person under 65 + a child under 18: $16,057
1 person + 2 children under 18: $18,769
I make above minimum wage, and if I were to have a kid, I would be squeezing by, barely getting through each month. Add two kids, or three, and I am out of luck. With my job, that is over federal minimum wage.
Plus, when wages are raised, there is more money going into the economy, more money being generated in revenue through taxes, and thus more money in general. People spend more if they have more money. (This is from my introductory economics class, demand increases when people make more because they spend more.)
I understand that Australia’s economy is smaller than ours, but proof do you have that it would straight up hurt our economy? I know that there’s the CBO projections of what could happen to the economy if the minimum wage is raised, but those are predictions. That is it. There is no way to be able to simply tell if that is what would happen. Without trying it.
So above is the interaction that Katie and I had with the political blog we discussed in class. I happen to be midwesternhaikuss and I’m sure you can guess which one Katie’s is. While my argument may not have been the strongest in the world, there is one big thing that I took from my sunday interaction.
Anyone can prove any point they want and have some sort of information to back it up with.
In this argument regarding minimum wage, Katie and I obviously support an increase in the federal minimum wage while redbloodedamerica does not. That is beside the point. The main thing I see is that despite what both parties had to say regarding the issue, both parties had information to back it up. It’s crazy when you think about it because in theory anyone can back up anything given that there is some sort of reasoning behind it.
I also think it’s crazy how one sided people can be in their arguments.
While I admit that I am only 18 years old with a somewhat vague grasp on the issue, it is great to see a couterpoint to my arguments. Seeing how someone can refute what I believe personally makes me a smarter person because I can see both sides of the story better. However, when you do not even take the other side of the argument into account (redbloodedamerica), that is when political ignorance can occur. It doesn’t matter that we don’t agree on the issue of minimum wage, but when you discredit everything the other party says that is when political stubborness occurs. It kind of reminds me of politicans in DC that are on the far ends of the political spectrum not being able to even consider what the other end has to say, and look where that is getting congress.
Overall this was an interesting, eye-opening, frustrating experience interacting with someone who posseses different political views than me. I’m happy I just happened to reblog that one political cartoon on a lazy sunday afternoon.
That’s a very mature thing for you to say, son. I would only add that you are young and when I was your age I would have probably been naive to different political theories pushed on me as well…but I actually hated authority and questioned everything (come to thing of it, I may have not changed that much after all). However, I have decades of work experience under my belt now and have personally worked my way from menial minimum wage jobs up the ladder in life. Which should be the American dream for every citizen.
I have seen both the mistakes in business and the successes…but most importantly I personally understand how basic business is run having been involved with several small businesses and large corporations in my career. Every economic policy, regulation, and law handed down from the government has repercussions; so when you speculate what will happen from theoretical philosophy instead of applying tried and true real-world applications based on historically proven, simple, principles, I do get defensive. People from your viewpoint like to characterize a reason to increase the minimum wage that simply isn’t very accurate. You hear buzz words like “living wage” and immediately start thinking with your emotions rather than your brain. The term “living wage” was cooked up by progressives (most likely organized labor) who come with terms like this to be catchy for those useful idiots that will parrot their movement.
Yes, both parties can have opposing ideas with their own set of data…but at the end of the day, one of the ideas is going to be better than the other. I encourage debate, but I also encourage the proper use of the facts and historical evidence to support your idea. Oh, and my years of real world experience is the complete opposite of ignorance, but I guess you can say it is stubbornness.
Your generation (baby boomers) got us into this shit in the first place so go prepare for your death as your life is coming to an end soon and that’s why we understand your simple minded and one sided way of thinking. But seriously stop it. You have had your chance for the past decades and guess what? We are in a bunch of shit that my generation had nothing to do with, yet all your generation can do is critique us. You are wrong. Point blank period and people like you are diminishing so I applaud you for trying to keep the fight going. Seriously though, retire already. We are fed up.